The Pool Process from A-Z
We learned a great deal in the process and would like to offer the following advise to anyone who is thinking about putting in a pool.
* take your time in the design process, get at least 5 quotes if not more. Go see existing work whenever possible. We spent a lot of time in this area, and we are very happy with our end results. But there were probably 3-4 things we would have changed in the end if we had spent even more time on this end and went to see more examples.
* once you pick a pool company - GO SEE some of their work especially on the specifics you have chosen. We probably would have changed a small thing here or there had we seen them in real life as opposed to pictures. This is the number one thing I recommend and partially because we got really lucky. I would say their were a dozen things that came out different then I thought they would simply because I didn't know better. Half of them didn't matter one way or the other, 40% of them were great and way better then I thought and 10% were worse. I think in the end the reason we were so lucky on how much of this we liked was due to the builders we chose and the amount of money we spent. Do your homework, take your time and GO SEE as many real world examples as possible.
* be home whenever possible while the work is being done. I know this is easier said then done, but we were home and make several key decisions along the way that got the whole project closer to our vision then it would have if we weren't home.
* Increase your budget - yes another one that is easier said then done, but in the end our project wouldn't have turned out half as nice had we saved a few thousand on the concrete finish, the BBQ, the new fence, etc, etc. In the end we probably spent quite a bit more then we intended but it was a small % considering the whole project and had me not spent the extra money we would have spent a lot of money and came very short of our vision.
* pay attention to the details - little things like the stones used, the color of the plaster, etc all matter a great deal in the end. Luckily for me - my wife paid very close attention to those details where as, I did not. Ideally someone needs to pay attention to this stuff.
* Don't scrimp on the landscaping - go to any pool website, look at any pool book - in there you will find some really nice pools, with sparse landscaping and an overall mediocre result. You will also find some average pools with lush landscaping that has an overall effect far better then the previous. Then you will find great pools, with great landscaping and you will have found the desired effect. I cannot stress enough - don't scrimp on the landscaping. Also spend money on the lights. I was initially shocked when the line item for lights on our landscaping quote was over 2k - But now that they are in and I have seen what it looks like without them, the lighting was very much worth it.
* realize your become a pool owner the day they brake ground, not the day the water is in. I was very surprised at how much we were involved in the process. My preconceived notion was we wrote a check and three months later jumped in. That is not at all how it goes. For one thing their are the aforementioned decisions to be made. Plus you have to hose down concrete, sweep off plaster and numerous other small tasks that you the homeowner are responsible for. Pool ownership starts at dig, not at water.
Well thats it for my coments, now off to jump in the pool.
Tuesday, July 24, 2007
Monday, July 23, 2007
Monday, July 16, 2007
No New Pics or Updates
Several people have asked why no new pics or updates and the reason is - I don't want to spoil the surprise for Saturday. The Pool and Landscaping are all done and it all looks fantastic - but no new pics till after the party.
Monday, July 2, 2007
Landscaping Layout
Now keep in mind this is just the layout for us to see how we like it.
Tomorrow we are off to Yosemite for our family vacation and upon our return we have been promised:
* all completed landscaping
* all completed sitting wall
* Pool equipment turned on and running
* cleaned and sealed patio
* patio cover
* water that we can actually go in - maybe
Tomorrow we are off to Yosemite for our family vacation and upon our return we have been promised:
* all completed landscaping
* all completed sitting wall
* Pool equipment turned on and running
* cleaned and sealed patio
* patio cover
* water that we can actually go in - maybe
Friday, June 29, 2007
We have Water!!!!!!!
Only took about 16 hours so far to fill half way - and we can't go in it for 10 days but we have water!!!!
Thursday, June 28, 2007
Wednesday, June 27, 2007
Water tomorrow
we are scheduled for plaster in the morning and water in the afternoon!!!! All I can say is I will believe it when I see it.
Monday, June 25, 2007
Concrete Complete
Now you can really see how the whole thing comes together. We are just a week away from plaster and landscape. Our own little paradise.
Concrete Day
Wed, June 20th
The crew arrived here at 5:45am with about 30 people and a big concrete mixer. It was all very exciting. The whole process is so organized and very fast. A big tube connected to the truck out front pumps liquid concrete to a section and about 20 people standing ankle deep in it start smoothing and raking and leveling. The whole gang just keeps moving in this fashion. They had most of the space done by 9am.
The crew arrived here at 5:45am with about 30 people and a big concrete mixer. It was all very exciting. The whole process is so organized and very fast. A big tube connected to the truck out front pumps liquid concrete to a section and about 20 people standing ankle deep in it start smoothing and raking and leveling. The whole gang just keeps moving in this fashion. They had most of the space done by 9am.
Sunday, June 17, 2007
Forms
Jorge and his crew get to work on the forms for the concrete and now you can really start to see what the backyard is going to look like.
Monday, June 11, 2007
Tile & Flagstone
Friday, June 8th
Tile & flagstone guys started today on the rock work. We saw the pallet of flagstone on the truck and it is truly beautiful. We ended up with untumbled flagstone instead of the tumbled we had originally picked because they did not have enough of one lot to do the job. This means that the colors are much more vibrant and varied, but also means they have to really sand down the edges to make them smooth.
It is amazing to watch them work. This is a true art. There are 3 younger men who mix the cement and fetch stones for an older gentlemen who seems to be doing all the actual placing of the stones. He picks several up, turns them over, looks at them in the sun, fits them in place and then cuts to a perfect fit. It's like a puzzle of natural rock.
Tile & flagstone guys started today on the rock work. We saw the pallet of flagstone on the truck and it is truly beautiful. We ended up with untumbled flagstone instead of the tumbled we had originally picked because they did not have enough of one lot to do the job. This means that the colors are much more vibrant and varied, but also means they have to really sand down the edges to make them smooth.
It is amazing to watch them work. This is a true art. There are 3 younger men who mix the cement and fetch stones for an older gentlemen who seems to be doing all the actual placing of the stones. He picks several up, turns them over, looks at them in the sun, fits them in place and then cuts to a perfect fit. It's like a puzzle of natural rock.
Thursday, June 7, 2007
Gunite
again they did all of this in just one day - amazing
the process (there would be more of these pics, but Troy was home sick this day and it made it hard to take too many pictures.)
after it is all done
the process (there would be more of these pics, but Troy was home sick this day and it made it hard to take too many pictures.)
after it is all done
Wednesday, June 6, 2007
Day Four - Steel
May 30
I am amazed on a daily basis on how fast this all goes
after this day we had a follow up plumbing day and an inspection that went wihtout a hitch. Now we are set for Gunnite next Monday.
I am amazed on a daily basis on how fast this all goes
after this day we had a follow up plumbing day and an inspection that went wihtout a hitch. Now we are set for Gunnite next Monday.
Day Three - Plumbing
May 29
after two days of no work (sunday and memorial day monday) they are back to work.
after two days of no work (sunday and memorial day monday) they are back to work.
End of Day Two
May 26
really only a day and a half and one of the construction guys said it would have taken one day if the dump was closer and they didn't have to wait so song for the two cycling dump trucks.
After their hard work we tipped them with a case of ice cold Corona
really only a day and a half and one of the construction guys said it would have taken one day if the dump was closer and they didn't have to wait so song for the two cycling dump trucks.
After their hard work we tipped them with a case of ice cold Corona
First Day Dig
May 25 - 7am
Best Babysitter ever - Troy is enthralled with the process
The process
after the day is over
Best Babysitter ever - Troy is enthralled with the process
The process
after the day is over
Tuesday, June 5, 2007
Night before dig
May 25
The plans are in with the city and all permits have been approved.
the crew is scheduled to show up tommorow morning and we need to take one more look at what it looked like Before.
The plans are in with the city and all permits have been approved.
the crew is scheduled to show up tommorow morning and we need to take one more look at what it looked like Before.
Signing the papers
May 18
we signed the contracts today.
OK, so that wasn't a very exciting blog post - but it was exciting to sign and get this thing rolling.
we signed the contracts today.
OK, so that wasn't a very exciting blog post - but it was exciting to sign and get this thing rolling.
Final Plan
May 15
we sat with Mark and Jorge on Tuesday night to go over the final plan.
we made a few tweaks to the benches and shelves in the pool and we looked into expanding it a couple feet. we even looked at moving it over to being more centered.
as they left I felt a little apprehensive that much of the plan still seemed kind of up in the air. But they assured me this was normal and we would have ample opportunity to make suggestions and changes as the pool came together.
which reminds me of something that we failed to mention back in the decision phase. One of the things Premier did that was very wise on the original call was they brought about 100 questionnaires that were filled out by previous customers. Now most of the comments and grades were positive, but it was not all 100% great (which we would have found suspicious anyway) So Karen did here due diligence and made quite a few phone calls to these customers and got some good responses. she also called the BBB. When it was all said and done thier reputation was a big reason we went with Premier.
we sat with Mark and Jorge on Tuesday night to go over the final plan.
we made a few tweaks to the benches and shelves in the pool and we looked into expanding it a couple feet. we even looked at moving it over to being more centered.
as they left I felt a little apprehensive that much of the plan still seemed kind of up in the air. But they assured me this was normal and we would have ample opportunity to make suggestions and changes as the pool came together.
which reminds me of something that we failed to mention back in the decision phase. One of the things Premier did that was very wise on the original call was they brought about 100 questionnaires that were filled out by previous customers. Now most of the comments and grades were positive, but it was not all 100% great (which we would have found suspicious anyway) So Karen did here due diligence and made quite a few phone calls to these customers and got some good responses. she also called the BBB. When it was all said and done thier reputation was a big reason we went with Premier.
How the hell are we going to pay for this thing?
May 14-16
We have been in this house almost 5 years and it has appreciated quite a bit - the problem is we have also spent a good portion of our equity on other projects and in the past year the market took a major downturn and with it a large potion on our equity, possibly all of it depending upon which market appraisal you believe.
So I set out on my first day of how to pay for his my calling Premiers "suggested" lender MPG Mortgage. They specialize in "pool" loans and with a first and a second we already like I wasn't looking at re-doing everything.
Early on in the conversation with Carol from MPG I got some very good news that they would be able to use the Appraisal we had done last year.
this of course was good because 1-no delay waiting for a new appraisal, and even better we appraised at 740 which is considerably higher then we would see now. having this much equity plus with the added value of the pool, our excellent credit scores (which I manage constantly) meant that we would have no problem getting a loan to cover most of the project at 8%
all of this was very good news, I knew our income level and extra credit scores would be attractive and allow us to get a loan, but I was worried that our overall debt and a reduction in the market might make it a hard loan that took weeks and required a higher then I was happy with interest rate.
In my mind from the beginning I had planned on April for planning and bidding, May for figuring out how to pay for it and construction in June and July.
Now in just 3 days instead of a whole month I was able to put together a loan that worked.
We have been in this house almost 5 years and it has appreciated quite a bit - the problem is we have also spent a good portion of our equity on other projects and in the past year the market took a major downturn and with it a large potion on our equity, possibly all of it depending upon which market appraisal you believe.
So I set out on my first day of how to pay for his my calling Premiers "suggested" lender MPG Mortgage. They specialize in "pool" loans and with a first and a second we already like I wasn't looking at re-doing everything.
Early on in the conversation with Carol from MPG I got some very good news that they would be able to use the Appraisal we had done last year.
this of course was good because 1-no delay waiting for a new appraisal, and even better we appraised at 740 which is considerably higher then we would see now. having this much equity plus with the added value of the pool, our excellent credit scores (which I manage constantly) meant that we would have no problem getting a loan to cover most of the project at 8%
all of this was very good news, I knew our income level and extra credit scores would be attractive and allow us to get a loan, but I was worried that our overall debt and a reduction in the market might make it a hard loan that took weeks and required a higher then I was happy with interest rate.
In my mind from the beginning I had planned on April for planning and bidding, May for figuring out how to pay for it and construction in June and July.
Now in just 3 days instead of a whole month I was able to put together a loan that worked.
I thought last Friday was busy
May 11th
So the previous Friday we had 2 bids appointments
Today we have 3.
First up Premier - Premier has come back with a second design and a new bid. This design is in blueprint form and is a much nicer free form with raised spa and waterfalls. This is all much closer to our original plan, just without the auto cover. The pool bid is roughly 67k. Also we have a bid from Jorge at 20 and we already know from the Patio cover guy they sent over that will be around 7. So all told we are looking at 104. Still pretty high, much more then we were imaging in the begging - but a number we were starting to understand was going to be in the neighborhood. we were not going to get this project done for 85 without making a lot of cutbacks. We do like the design and from the begging have liked Mark and Jorge - in a smaller investment we would probably have signed up right then and there. However with a project of this see, I felt it wouldn't be prudent at this juncture to make that decision and we wait for our next appointment.
Mike from Diablo Pools - this was one of my least favorite appointments. Like we said before we felt as though Mike would build a good pool and was very qualified he just didn't communicate very well and we felt like he only wanted to build the pool and have us handle the rest. He went over his numbers which I don't even remember because this was obviously not going to work. As he left we both felt bad - but we just knew this would never work
Diablo Disney - as we were preparing for Jeremy from Diablo Disney we realized we had pretty much decided on Premier - we liked their design, their bid installing everything was doable and we really like the people. The one thing Jeremy had going for him was we had really liked him the first time.
When Jeremy got here we remembered why we liked him so much. Jeremy is an old ranch hand, team roper, good all around guy. He had a lot of great suggestions and was open to anything we wanted to do. When he first pulled up his design - I had all but forget he was showing us a design with an auto cover because he had come before we had changed our plan. Well he started going over his design and it was gorgeous (I can't post it here because unlike Diablo he didn't email me a copy of it) For starters it was Enormous - easily the biggest pool of the ones we had seen so far - also the way the cover was done, the back wall, the waterfalls - all of it was very very nice. I was starting to wonder if we might not end up with an auto cover after all and then... the bid. 122K including the patio cover but not the full landscaping - this total project was going to be in the 130's
after he left - we talked about how much we liked his design, but by far the most expensive so far. we did consider for a minute having him submit another design but in discussing it we decided we don't want him to go to all the effort if in the end we still went with Premier. Plus he was the one guy that was going to use his own guys and not Jorge and were sold on Jorge at this point.
with that on May 11th, 5 weeks after our first appointment we called Premier.
So the previous Friday we had 2 bids appointments
Today we have 3.
First up Premier - Premier has come back with a second design and a new bid. This design is in blueprint form and is a much nicer free form with raised spa and waterfalls. This is all much closer to our original plan, just without the auto cover. The pool bid is roughly 67k. Also we have a bid from Jorge at 20 and we already know from the Patio cover guy they sent over that will be around 7. So all told we are looking at 104. Still pretty high, much more then we were imaging in the begging - but a number we were starting to understand was going to be in the neighborhood. we were not going to get this project done for 85 without making a lot of cutbacks. We do like the design and from the begging have liked Mark and Jorge - in a smaller investment we would probably have signed up right then and there. However with a project of this see, I felt it wouldn't be prudent at this juncture to make that decision and we wait for our next appointment.
Mike from Diablo Pools - this was one of my least favorite appointments. Like we said before we felt as though Mike would build a good pool and was very qualified he just didn't communicate very well and we felt like he only wanted to build the pool and have us handle the rest. He went over his numbers which I don't even remember because this was obviously not going to work. As he left we both felt bad - but we just knew this would never work
Diablo Disney - as we were preparing for Jeremy from Diablo Disney we realized we had pretty much decided on Premier - we liked their design, their bid installing everything was doable and we really like the people. The one thing Jeremy had going for him was we had really liked him the first time.
When Jeremy got here we remembered why we liked him so much. Jeremy is an old ranch hand, team roper, good all around guy. He had a lot of great suggestions and was open to anything we wanted to do. When he first pulled up his design - I had all but forget he was showing us a design with an auto cover because he had come before we had changed our plan. Well he started going over his design and it was gorgeous (I can't post it here because unlike Diablo he didn't email me a copy of it) For starters it was Enormous - easily the biggest pool of the ones we had seen so far - also the way the cover was done, the back wall, the waterfalls - all of it was very very nice. I was starting to wonder if we might not end up with an auto cover after all and then... the bid. 122K including the patio cover but not the full landscaping - this total project was going to be in the 130's
after he left - we talked about how much we liked his design, but by far the most expensive so far. we did consider for a minute having him submit another design but in discussing it we decided we don't want him to go to all the effort if in the end we still went with Premier. Plus he was the one guy that was going to use his own guys and not Jorge and were sold on Jorge at this point.
with that on May 11th, 5 weeks after our first appointment we called Premier.
Our couple bids
May 4
Today is going to be a busy day.
We have two bids coming in, we have Mike from Diablo Pools and Eric from Absolute.
First up Diablo Pools
a picture is worth a thousand words
so we got this from Mike
One thing we really liked was the way he lined the grass with the coping stones. we thought that looked very nice. He also had very nice landscaping.
However as we expected Diablo was really only looking at the pool part and did not bid any of the landscaping or side work. He did talk a lot about the various pool equipment and although we recognize that it is important - that was a little cart ahead of the horse for us.
When he left, we knew we were very unlikely to go with Diablo - at the end of the day we do think he would have built us a very nice pool and it would have been very well done - however of all of the people we talked too he was the least interested in the rest of the project and this is not a project that we wanted to have to deal with multiple contractors on.
Up next Eric from Absolute.
Eric's design was still one with the cover and any hopes of a cheap bid with the cover were out the window. His bid came in over 92k for just the pool and cover, no landscaping, no patio cover which meant more contractors and a total cost over 120. Plus he wore a Dodger hat again.
As the day comes to a close Absolute and Diablo are pretty much no longer in the running.
a word about Jorge
So way back when all of this started we met Jorge Villasenor when he came with Premier basically as their partner in the project. Jorge does not work for Premier, but rather is the owner of Professional Landscape and Construction.
From the first day we met Jorge we were very impressed with his great suggestions and a very easy going manner. He was off the charts good on the Blink test. Karen and I both loved Jorge.
as we have gone through this process we were amazed at how many people knew Jorge and had great things to say about them. Almost all of the other contractors were willing and even urging us to work with Jorge and have him take the lead on the landscaping portion of the project.
a few things had become abundantly clear to us since all this started. Once when we looked at pictures of pools (and we looked at a lot of them) it was always the landscaping that really made the project looks nice. Their were some pools that were OK, but looked much better with nice landscaping and then their were others that the pool was above average but poor or no landscaping at all killed the whole backyard.
the other thing we had clearly decided was that no matter who we chose - we wanted Jorge to head up the landscaping. his manner, his suggestions, his reputation all added up to Karen and both really wanting to work with Jorge.
From the first day we met Jorge we were very impressed with his great suggestions and a very easy going manner. He was off the charts good on the Blink test. Karen and I both loved Jorge.
as we have gone through this process we were amazed at how many people knew Jorge and had great things to say about them. Almost all of the other contractors were willing and even urging us to work with Jorge and have him take the lead on the landscaping portion of the project.
a few things had become abundantly clear to us since all this started. Once when we looked at pictures of pools (and we looked at a lot of them) it was always the landscaping that really made the project looks nice. Their were some pools that were OK, but looked much better with nice landscaping and then their were others that the pool was above average but poor or no landscaping at all killed the whole backyard.
the other thing we had clearly decided was that no matter who we chose - we wanted Jorge to head up the landscaping. his manner, his suggestions, his reputation all added up to Karen and both really wanting to work with Jorge.
Diablo pools
April 27
So our next appointment is with Diablo Pools (not to be confused with Diablo Disney)
Mike shows up and this guy looks like a contractor. He has the hardened hands of a contractor and he talks like a contractor.
We really enjoyed Mike and he clearly knows what he is talking about - but the problem initially is that he is really into the Pool design, but seems less interested in our full design including landscaping and patio cover.
We have said from day one we were looking for a turn key operation dealing primarily with one person (although we backed off a little on that when we met Jorge who came with Premier)
So our next appointment is with Diablo Pools (not to be confused with Diablo Disney)
Mike shows up and this guy looks like a contractor. He has the hardened hands of a contractor and he talks like a contractor.
We really enjoyed Mike and he clearly knows what he is talking about - but the problem initially is that he is really into the Pool design, but seems less interested in our full design including landscaping and patio cover.
We have said from day one we were looking for a turn key operation dealing primarily with one person (although we backed off a little on that when we met Jorge who came with Premier)
looking at the options
after all our conversations about the pool and the various options, most speficially the auto cover once again we walked into our backyard and looked around.
we still had two plans coming back that were going to accommodate the pool cover (besides the one we already got from premier)
so we decided to call Premier back and have them make us a new plan without the cover.
we also decided that in our upcoming appointments we would also go free form without the cover.
of course this was not my first choice, but clearly the auto cover and free form "pool in a pool" was going to be just too expensive.
so we could go straight rectangle with no raised spa and the cover
or we could move to the free form and lose the cover and go with a fence.
two things really got me to consider moving on without the cover.
the first was looking at the fencing web site and talking about the best way for us to do the fence. My biggest issue with the fence was it always feels so obtrusive to me. we are creating this backyard paradise and then it all gets blocked out by a fence. I still didn't feel like we solved this problem, but with placement and the fact that the whole thing can come out while entertaining made it less of an issue.
The second thing was something one of the contractors said (and I don't even remember which one it was.) He said the biggest problem with the cover is that you lose a lot of the ambiance of the waterfalls since they can only run when the cover is open. I like the sound of the waterfalls and I know Karen LOVES the sound of the waterfalls and it is true on a cold fall day when no one is swimming without the cover you can still enjoy the walls.
So with that we decided on no cover (unless of course one of the bids that hadn't come back yet was great and much lower then premier)
we still had two plans coming back that were going to accommodate the pool cover (besides the one we already got from premier)
so we decided to call Premier back and have them make us a new plan without the cover.
we also decided that in our upcoming appointments we would also go free form without the cover.
of course this was not my first choice, but clearly the auto cover and free form "pool in a pool" was going to be just too expensive.
so we could go straight rectangle with no raised spa and the cover
or we could move to the free form and lose the cover and go with a fence.
two things really got me to consider moving on without the cover.
the first was looking at the fencing web site and talking about the best way for us to do the fence. My biggest issue with the fence was it always feels so obtrusive to me. we are creating this backyard paradise and then it all gets blocked out by a fence. I still didn't feel like we solved this problem, but with placement and the fact that the whole thing can come out while entertaining made it less of an issue.
The second thing was something one of the contractors said (and I don't even remember which one it was.) He said the biggest problem with the cover is that you lose a lot of the ambiance of the waterfalls since they can only run when the cover is open. I like the sound of the waterfalls and I know Karen LOVES the sound of the waterfalls and it is true on a cold fall day when no one is swimming without the cover you can still enjoy the walls.
So with that we decided on no cover (unless of course one of the bids that hadn't come back yet was great and much lower then premier)
Saturday, June 2, 2007
Seascape & a new attitude
Saturday, April 21stYea, my birthday and a fabulous romantic escape to Seascape - courtesy of Janice & Chuck and also Auntie Crystal for babysitting Troy overnight. We really needed this time away together and it came at a great time to discuss and plan our project. During this weekend we basically decided that Premier was likely going to be our choice of companies. We also had some great discussions about what this was going to add to our lives and also the budget. It was a good time to reflect on our goals and getting committed to reducing debt in the long run and how we were going to pay for this big project. We drove back feeling like we had a plan and recharged batteries.
Interview Day : Logan Pools
Friday, April 20th
Our second meeting was with Logan. This company had been voted best pool builder in Brentwood 4 years in a row and the quality of their work was obvious (just ask them). The owner lives in our neighborhood so we felt good about that. What was so odd about this meeting was the 1 hour we spent being told that every other pool company focuses on the sales pitch and that they were all just salesmen and they just try to sell you stuff. Well, I can honestly say our experience with Logan was nothing but a hard sales pitch, complete with graphs and slides. It was not fun. They definitely have a reputation for building beautiful, expensive pools and I am certain they would have done a great job - but the fit was not there. That was our last meeting with Logan.
Our second meeting was with Logan. This company had been voted best pool builder in Brentwood 4 years in a row and the quality of their work was obvious (just ask them). The owner lives in our neighborhood so we felt good about that. What was so odd about this meeting was the 1 hour we spent being told that every other pool company focuses on the sales pitch and that they were all just salesmen and they just try to sell you stuff. Well, I can honestly say our experience with Logan was nothing but a hard sales pitch, complete with graphs and slides. It was not fun. They definitely have a reputation for building beautiful, expensive pools and I am certain they would have done a great job - but the fit was not there. That was our last meeting with Logan.
Interview Day : Absolute
Friday, April 20th
Today we met with Absolute Pools which is a small family run company. I was a bit worried when I answered the door and Eric had a Dodgers hat on (for those that don't know - life long, die hard Giants fans are not fond of the Dodgers or their fans). We took Eric through the same conversation, the scope of the project, our questions, he measured, etc. Eventually, as most of the meetings went, Alan & he started talking about sports. Turns out Eric's son plays pinto jr. ball on the Dodgers (hence the hat) so we decided to give him a chance.
Today we met with Absolute Pools which is a small family run company. I was a bit worried when I answered the door and Eric had a Dodgers hat on (for those that don't know - life long, die hard Giants fans are not fond of the Dodgers or their fans). We took Eric through the same conversation, the scope of the project, our questions, he measured, etc. Eventually, as most of the meetings went, Alan & he started talking about sports. Turns out Eric's son plays pinto jr. ball on the Dodgers (hence the hat) so we decided to give him a chance.
Monday, May 28, 2007
A new day
Friday - April 20, 2007
We have two appointments today and after getting all the kids off to school Karen and I walk into the backyard. We know we can't do the 125 and we wonder whether they are just high in their bid or whether we are going to have to scale our project back, lose the pool in a pool and go back to our previous pool:
we discuss the various options
* no pool at all - clearly not something we want to do
* rectangle pool with cover - original plan, but after seeing the "pool in a pool" it just doesn't cut it
* hope on of these other contractors is considerably cheaper - could be, we really have no way to know
* lose the cover and go to a fence option - something I am not at all happy with, but something Karen would be OK with.
so with that we are very much up in the air and wait for our next appointment.
We have two appointments today and after getting all the kids off to school Karen and I walk into the backyard. We know we can't do the 125 and we wonder whether they are just high in their bid or whether we are going to have to scale our project back, lose the pool in a pool and go back to our previous pool:
we discuss the various options
* no pool at all - clearly not something we want to do
* rectangle pool with cover - original plan, but after seeing the "pool in a pool" it just doesn't cut it
* hope on of these other contractors is considerably cheaper - could be, we really have no way to know
* lose the cover and go to a fence option - something I am not at all happy with, but something Karen would be OK with.
so with that we are very much up in the air and wait for our next appointment.
Our First Setback
April 19, 2007
OK - so when we started this process we really didn't know how much this whole thing was going to cost.
We have had the side yard concrete bid a couple times and it has always been way too expensive in our mind for the utilitarian purpose and there is always a "short load" fee because it doesn't involve a huge load of concrete - so basically you are paying more for less.
so we are not sure how much that part is going to be
and we don't know how much the landscaping and the cover, etc, etc.
so I make some guesstimates add it all up and come up with 75,000 - neither one of us have any idea how realistic this is (or how we are going to pay for it, but hey we always seem to find a way)
Now I also forgot the whole pool cover issue. Back in the beginning I mentioned the automatic pool cover, and how much that was a central part of our entire project. One of the problems we ran into on our first appointment is that I wanted the pool cover, but Karen did not want a rectangle pool - and unfortunately those are not compatible issues - or so we thought.
However on our first few appointments we had the contractors give us bids for rectangular pools with auto-covers. Karen was not ecstatic about it and frankly it wasn't my first choice esthetically either - but it seemed to be our only option and then...
I found this picture online:
It was gorgeous and it was perfect - it allowed us to have the cover, but also allowed for a free-form and we really liked the way it looked. We were both very happy and I sent it off to the contractors we had already talked to and printed out multiple copies to show our coming appointments - this was a design we were both very excited about. We came to find out this is called a "pool in a pool"
So -we were all set to get our first bid.
Mark and Jorge came over on a Thursday night and we sat down to look at the bid. Now the first time they came over and subsequent conversations with them - everything was very jovial and fun and they were easy to talk to. On this night Mark was really quiet and it seemed as if something was wrong. We finally asked him Mark, what is wrong with you tonight. Well, he said, its the pool in a pool, it is really expensive. OK, well lets look at it and see what we got. So he started showing us the blueprints and describing all the things. One of our first impressions is this pool is a lot smaller then the one we envisioned.
So we get through all the design and he brings out the bid - it is roughly 83,000 - which is not too bad and not far off from our estimate. the problem is that is just for the pool and the cover - no landscaping, no side concrete, no patio cover, no BBQ, nothing. Once we get into Jorge's landscaping bid and the bid for the patio cover - the whole thing was going to add up to well over $125,000 - and that was just not going to be realistic.
OK, so the thoughts are racing through our heads - have we simply tried to do too much, are the other bids going to be cheaper, are we even going to be able to do anything?
So I ask him - what is making it so high. It is the pool in a pool he tells me. Basically we need to build 2 pools, not so much in the excavation, equipment, gunite and all that. But in the craftsmanship, the steel and the cover itself, Bottom line the pool in a pool and auto cover are driving the cost up around $25,000.
They leave and we are all depressed - I go to bed wondering if we are going to be able to build a pool at all.
Appointment Three - Diablo Disney
April 18, 2007
So at this point we are still pretty high on Premier, low on Aqua and waiting on our other various appointments. We know it is going to be expensive, but we are not sure how expensive.
now the pool is the primary part of the project, but the project is so much more.
for one we also want a spa
and the auto cover
and some waterfalls
we need cement on both sides of the house - right now both sides are just dirt and it is an awful mess in the winter and basically unusable. Our garage is overflowing with all of the kids bikes and the 4 garbage cans. So the project also involves both sides having broom finish concrete and paths to the sidewalk. The east narrow side is going to be for the garbage cans and the west wide side is going to be where all the bikes, scooters, sports equipment, not to mention all the pool equipment.
we also need to rebuild the fence gates, rip out and replace the poorly done backyard patio, add in a patio cover a lot of landscaping and trees and Karen's new addition - the sitting wall.
It is a big project - basically a complete and total remodel of the back and side yards.
So, our third appointment is with Jeremy from Diablo Disney - now the name of his company is Diablo Oasis - but there company letterhead is all in the Disney font - it looks like the Disneyland Pool Building company.
Back to our blink test - Jeremy is doing very well. He is extremely down to earth, funny, salt of the earth kind of guy. We head outside - he makes some good suggestions, we have a nice conversation and when he leaves we are impressed. at this point it could be either Premier or Diablo Disney - it all depends upon the bids.
So at this point we are still pretty high on Premier, low on Aqua and waiting on our other various appointments. We know it is going to be expensive, but we are not sure how expensive.
now the pool is the primary part of the project, but the project is so much more.
for one we also want a spa
and the auto cover
and some waterfalls
we need cement on both sides of the house - right now both sides are just dirt and it is an awful mess in the winter and basically unusable. Our garage is overflowing with all of the kids bikes and the 4 garbage cans. So the project also involves both sides having broom finish concrete and paths to the sidewalk. The east narrow side is going to be for the garbage cans and the west wide side is going to be where all the bikes, scooters, sports equipment, not to mention all the pool equipment.
we also need to rebuild the fence gates, rip out and replace the poorly done backyard patio, add in a patio cover a lot of landscaping and trees and Karen's new addition - the sitting wall.
It is a big project - basically a complete and total remodel of the back and side yards.
So, our third appointment is with Jeremy from Diablo Disney - now the name of his company is Diablo Oasis - but there company letterhead is all in the Disney font - it looks like the Disneyland Pool Building company.
Back to our blink test - Jeremy is doing very well. He is extremely down to earth, funny, salt of the earth kind of guy. We head outside - he makes some good suggestions, we have a nice conversation and when he leaves we are impressed. at this point it could be either Premier or Diablo Disney - it all depends upon the bids.
Appointment Two - Aqua Pool & Spa
April 14, 2007
Blink test, we have a problem.
For every positive feeling we had with Premier - Aqua was the opposite.
Now before I get into the appointment, let me tell you about Aqua, Aqua is huge. The do hundreds of pools every year and have an enormous workforce. Most builders are contractors that subcontract out various portions of the pool. Aqua's deal is they do everything start to finish and every last person who steps in your backyard is an employee of Aqua. It is a compelling argument.
Also in their favor they have an absolutely gorgeous showroom. Out in Manteca they have an enormous lot with about a dozen or more real live full pools to see. You can see various concrete options, plaster options, this option, that option - everything. It is extremely well done and very very impressive. We went for about an hour before an Easter party and we were very impressed.
http://www.aquapoolandspa.com/aps_showroom.html
So the day the Aqua pool guys was coming we were pretty excited. we liked Premier a lot, but we also bought into the Aqua philosophy (http://www.aquapoolandspa.com/aps_faq.html#_14) and we were very impressed with the showroom.
then, the guy showed up.
again blink test - not very good.
So we have a quick conversation about our thoughts on the pool and we head outside. Now I am paraphrasing but this is pretty much how it went.
Us: "we were thinking of putting the pool over here and the spa over there"
Him : "well, I don't know, that is going to be hard"
Us: "we need some concrete over here and a patio cover"
Him: "yeah, that seems like a lot of work"
Us: "blah, blah, blah, this detail that detail"
Him: "I don't know it seems really hard, we going to have to dig a hole and have a tractor and a lot of workers, its going to cost a lot of money"
Us "uh yeah"
so about 10 minutes later he leaves and we just look at each other - was that guy serious. On almost every comment we made, his comment was how hard it was going to be and how expensive it was going to me. It was like we were really inconveniencing him.
needless to say - we put Aqua on the same pile as Swan from the year before.
and then my wife called and left him some VERY direct feedback on his sales tactics - I wish I had a tape recorder going because it was classic.
Blink test, we have a problem.
For every positive feeling we had with Premier - Aqua was the opposite.
Now before I get into the appointment, let me tell you about Aqua, Aqua is huge. The do hundreds of pools every year and have an enormous workforce. Most builders are contractors that subcontract out various portions of the pool. Aqua's deal is they do everything start to finish and every last person who steps in your backyard is an employee of Aqua. It is a compelling argument.
Also in their favor they have an absolutely gorgeous showroom. Out in Manteca they have an enormous lot with about a dozen or more real live full pools to see. You can see various concrete options, plaster options, this option, that option - everything. It is extremely well done and very very impressive. We went for about an hour before an Easter party and we were very impressed.
http://www.aquapoolandspa.com/aps_showroom.html
So the day the Aqua pool guys was coming we were pretty excited. we liked Premier a lot, but we also bought into the Aqua philosophy (http://www.aquapoolandspa.com/aps_faq.html#_14) and we were very impressed with the showroom.
then, the guy showed up.
again blink test - not very good.
So we have a quick conversation about our thoughts on the pool and we head outside. Now I am paraphrasing but this is pretty much how it went.
Us: "we were thinking of putting the pool over here and the spa over there"
Him : "well, I don't know, that is going to be hard"
Us: "we need some concrete over here and a patio cover"
Him: "yeah, that seems like a lot of work"
Us: "blah, blah, blah, this detail that detail"
Him: "I don't know it seems really hard, we going to have to dig a hole and have a tractor and a lot of workers, its going to cost a lot of money"
Us "uh yeah"
so about 10 minutes later he leaves and we just look at each other - was that guy serious. On almost every comment we made, his comment was how hard it was going to be and how expensive it was going to me. It was like we were really inconveniencing him.
needless to say - we put Aqua on the same pile as Swan from the year before.
and then my wife called and left him some VERY direct feedback on his sales tactics - I wish I had a tape recorder going because it was classic.
Appointment One - Premier Pool & Spa
April 6, 2007
Our first appointment and looking back very funny on how little we knew about the process. We read a few books and did a little research - but I think we learned more in that first appointment (and certainly much more over the next seven weeks) then we ever imagined was involved in putting in a pool.)
Our first company was Premier Pool & Spa and our initial blink test was very positive. Mark (the pool guy) and Jorge (the landscape guy) were both great answered all our questions, and the more they answered the more we had. We walked the back yard, took some measurements and took about an hour to discuss all the options (and there are a lot of them)
When they left - we looked at each and realized that we had a lot of things to learn and decide.
Our first appointment and looking back very funny on how little we knew about the process. We read a few books and did a little research - but I think we learned more in that first appointment (and certainly much more over the next seven weeks) then we ever imagined was involved in putting in a pool.)
Our first company was Premier Pool & Spa and our initial blink test was very positive. Mark (the pool guy) and Jorge (the landscape guy) were both great answered all our questions, and the more they answered the more we had. We walked the back yard, took some measurements and took about an hour to discuss all the options (and there are a lot of them)
When they left - we looked at each and realized that we had a lot of things to learn and decide.
Friday, May 25, 2007
The Design
Before our first appointment - Karen and I spent a lot of time doing research and we came up wiht a design template that we liked and it looked like this:
Blink
So before I describe the meetings we had, I think it is important to explain the concept of "blink" as described by this book by Malcolm Gladwell. Karen and I had just read this book and both thought it was fantastic.
The general idea of the book was to put scientific reasoning behind why we have gut instincts and why they are so often right.
being the type of hyper-logical person that I am - having logical scientific reasons for gut instincts is powerful stuff. I had often trusted my gut, but would also search for a logical reason why that I could not identify and thus have some internal conflict. this book and the brilliant way it is presented allowed me to trust my instincts with much more trust, and almost no internal conflict.
the "blink" philopsophies would come up a lot in this process.
part 4
So this time we make 6 appointments with 6 different companies
needless to say Swan, was not one of them.
1. Premier Pool and Spa - had a good flier, really liked the examples on their website
2. Aqua Pool and Spa - very big company, has full showroom in Modesto and boasts of being only company that uses all "employees" and not subcontractors. Their argument is compelling.
3. Absolute Pools
4. Logan Pools
5. Diablo Pools
6. Diablo Oasis Pools (which we started calling Diablo Disney because they use the Disney font in all of their stuff"
needless to say Swan, was not one of them.
1. Premier Pool and Spa - had a good flier, really liked the examples on their website
2. Aqua Pool and Spa - very big company, has full showroom in Modesto and boasts of being only company that uses all "employees" and not subcontractors. Their argument is compelling.
3. Absolute Pools
4. Logan Pools
5. Diablo Pools
6. Diablo Oasis Pools (which we started calling Diablo Disney because they use the Disney font in all of their stuff"
part 3
So with our great Swan experience under our belt - we get busy and don't have any new appointments, money gets tight, football gets going and 2006 drifts away - no pool this year.
2007 is upon us and once we get past football and the holidays we decide to once again "look at getting a pool put in"
friends have heard us utter this phrase so much, it has become something of a joke and we are not sure we even believe it ourselves.
we did make one point of progression in 2006 and that was the discovery of the auto pool cover. IN my mind at least this had alleviated a lot of the fears I had about troy and the pool.
2007 is upon us and once we get past football and the holidays we decide to once again "look at getting a pool put in"
friends have heard us utter this phrase so much, it has become something of a joke and we are not sure we even believe it ourselves.
we did make one point of progression in 2006 and that was the discovery of the auto pool cover. IN my mind at least this had alleviated a lot of the fears I had about troy and the pool.
a long journey - part two
The actual design process started last year - when we first started interviewing pool contractors.
Our very first experience did not go well.
I called Swan Pools because I had a flier from them and was familiar with the company name as they have been around a long time.
So I made an appointment - for 11am.
11:30 no pool guy
Noon - no pool guy
1:00 - I get a call:
pool guy "hey I'm running a little late"
me thinking "no S***"
me talking "no problem, you still going to be able to make it today?"
pool guy "Yeah should be there in about an hour"
me "OK"
2:00 no pool guy
2:30 I call pool guy
me "Hey you still coming?"
PG "yeah I am on my way"
me "OK, I need to get my kids by 4"
PG "him - no problem - I'll be there in 15 minutes"
2:45 - no pool guy
3:00 - no pool guy
3:05 - I call pool guy
me "hey you still coming?"
PG "yeah on my way"
me "OK, well I am going to go pick up my kids and be back in 20 minutes, because if I don't and you get here I won't be able to make it in time:
PG "OK, I'll be there in 30 minutes"
3:35 - I have got the kids and came home - no pool guy
note: AJ has a baseball game that I need to manage - starts at 6, we need to be at the field at 5 - didn't think this was going to be a conflict with an 11am appointment!
3:45 - I call pool guy
me "hey you still coming?"
PG "yeah almost there"
me "OK, but here is the deal I need to leave by 450 - can you get here and have time to discuss this before then"
PG "well, I don't know"
me "look, I don't mean to be a prick or anything but we did have an appointment at 11"
PG "I know, I know - I just got held up this one client is a real jerk and blah, blah, blah"
note: I never understand when salesman bad mouth their other customers to a potential client - it always makes me wary, but I digress:
PG cont " I'll be there in 5 min"
me thinking again "yeah, I bet"
3:50 - no pool guy
4:00 - no pool guy
4:15 NO F****** POOL GUY - Is this guy for real?
4:30 - Hey a pool guy - now remember I need to leave now in 15 minutes for the game and I remind him.
PG "well, I don't know if that will be enough time"
me (as politely as I can since my two young children are watching) "well, I've been waiting all day and this is all the time I have left"
PG "alright"
me "OK, so my wife and I were thinking we would like to put the pool here and a spa over there and maybe some landscaping"
PG (interrupting) "well we have this special and it looks like this and it costs 45 thousand"
me "OK, well that is not exactly what we are looking for, do you do custom designs"
PG "well, we can but we don't really like to"
me thinking again "how does this guy still have a job"
it is now 4;50 and I am out of time do I decide to cut bait
me "OK, leave me your special and I will discuss it with my wife"
PG "well, if we sign today we can get started faster"
me laughing "yeah, I don't think I am going to do that and I need to go to my game now"
PG "well, I did come all the way out here"
Me (restraining from simply punching him in the face at this point, after all the kids are still watching) "yeah, well like I said I will look at your special with my wife"
He leaves, we rush out to the game and needless to say - we didn't go with Swan.
Our very first experience did not go well.
I called Swan Pools because I had a flier from them and was familiar with the company name as they have been around a long time.
So I made an appointment - for 11am.
11:30 no pool guy
Noon - no pool guy
1:00 - I get a call:
pool guy "hey I'm running a little late"
me thinking "no S***"
me talking "no problem, you still going to be able to make it today?"
pool guy "Yeah should be there in about an hour"
me "OK"
2:00 no pool guy
2:30 I call pool guy
me "Hey you still coming?"
PG "yeah I am on my way"
me "OK, I need to get my kids by 4"
PG "him - no problem - I'll be there in 15 minutes"
2:45 - no pool guy
3:00 - no pool guy
3:05 - I call pool guy
me "hey you still coming?"
PG "yeah on my way"
me "OK, well I am going to go pick up my kids and be back in 20 minutes, because if I don't and you get here I won't be able to make it in time:
PG "OK, I'll be there in 30 minutes"
3:35 - I have got the kids and came home - no pool guy
note: AJ has a baseball game that I need to manage - starts at 6, we need to be at the field at 5 - didn't think this was going to be a conflict with an 11am appointment!
3:45 - I call pool guy
me "hey you still coming?"
PG "yeah almost there"
me "OK, but here is the deal I need to leave by 450 - can you get here and have time to discuss this before then"
PG "well, I don't know"
me "look, I don't mean to be a prick or anything but we did have an appointment at 11"
PG "I know, I know - I just got held up this one client is a real jerk and blah, blah, blah"
note: I never understand when salesman bad mouth their other customers to a potential client - it always makes me wary, but I digress:
PG cont " I'll be there in 5 min"
me thinking again "yeah, I bet"
3:50 - no pool guy
4:00 - no pool guy
4:15 NO F****** POOL GUY - Is this guy for real?
4:30 - Hey a pool guy - now remember I need to leave now in 15 minutes for the game and I remind him.
PG "well, I don't know if that will be enough time"
me (as politely as I can since my two young children are watching) "well, I've been waiting all day and this is all the time I have left"
PG "alright"
me "OK, so my wife and I were thinking we would like to put the pool here and a spa over there and maybe some landscaping"
PG (interrupting) "well we have this special and it looks like this and it costs 45 thousand"
me "OK, well that is not exactly what we are looking for, do you do custom designs"
PG "well, we can but we don't really like to"
me thinking again "how does this guy still have a job"
it is now 4;50 and I am out of time do I decide to cut bait
me "OK, leave me your special and I will discuss it with my wife"
PG "well, if we sign today we can get started faster"
me laughing "yeah, I don't think I am going to do that and I need to go to my game now"
PG "well, I did come all the way out here"
Me (restraining from simply punching him in the face at this point, after all the kids are still watching) "yeah, well like I said I will look at your special with my wife"
He leaves, we rush out to the game and needless to say - we didn't go with Swan.
A long journey - part one
When Karen and I got married in 2002 and moved into this house - one of the things I liked about the house was the size of the backyard and the hope that someday we would have a pool put it.
As time moved on - the kids lack of swimming prowess, the enormous cost and the multitude of other projects kept us from pursuing the idea.
So here we are in 2007, it still costs too much, we are busier then ever, but the big kids are all great swimmers and we are confident we can get Troy swimming in the next couple of years - so off we go.
As time moved on - the kids lack of swimming prowess, the enormous cost and the multitude of other projects kept us from pursuing the idea.
So here we are in 2007, it still costs too much, we are busier then ever, but the big kids are all great swimmers and we are confident we can get Troy swimming in the next couple of years - so off we go.
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